September 2007 • VOLUME 25 • © HORSES For LIFE™ Magazine

Starting Something Good Part 2
Last month we had Part 1 A real life journey of one rider exploring a new way of riding and discovering through her pony. At first she was enthusiastic, then doubts began to creep in.

One thing that I've pointed out - and I'm not trying to justify my bad riding - but Rocky did the same thing when my instructor was riding him, so does this mean she's a bad rider? I really didn't think so, she has a fabulous seat. But anyway, I was just wondering about that... I know, it's hard to talk about someone who you is not in front of you, so probably best, not to even comment on that. I am worried however that her teaching may be conflicting with what you guys are telling me, I just don't know... Thanks, Sarah

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Sarah if you went to a show and saw a horse's mouth gaping as it went around the ring what would you think of that rider?

If you saw a horse consistently BTV what would your opinion of that rider be? Assess your horse and the instructor as you would if you saw them for the very first time coming in through the in gate into the show ring. Since I wasn't there and didn't see her ride I can't for sure say one way or another if the woman has a good seat or a pretty seat or a good and pretty seat you who were there is going to have to assess that and I have every confidence that you're able to.

THEN A CHANGE BEGINS
I thought very long and hard whether to share this internal debate I've been having, but all things considered, I've decided to give it a try. It is not my place to condemn one thing and favor another, or speak against one theory or a certain individual, I merely would like to share my thought on this entire subject, nothing more and nothing less.

First of all, I want to say that I'm finding out why it is so incredibly difficult to properly train a horse. As a rider, I must not only be proficient in my own balance and equitation, but I must also understand the progression of what's most important to the horse's development considering his current level of training.

I've been having a love/hate relationship with this elbow concept. Fixing your upper body / elbows DOES make an instant difference. Your seat becomes way more effective and you can "feel" things more quickly. It's easier to make a quick correction with the seat if your elbows are solid. You feel like you're glued to the horse. If the focus is shifted to the elbow, the rider's focus is placed right above the center of gravity - where you need to be in order to drive the horse forward into the hands. The horse feels a solid unit above the saddle and the seat aids mean something. The stomach, seat and legs are free to do whatever they do, without my torso causing static. The added bonus is that it is next to impossible to collapse a hip with your elbow tight to your side. You seem more still in the saddle, although I think that's an illusion, because one can never be truly still on a moving animal. My instructor would say that keeping the elbows locked to your sides will help the horse.

To make a long story short, this concept was really not working for me [viewonly=special}and my pony. Rocky developed a lot of tension in his back and started evading the bit. I would say that these issues are my fault. But I also think that Rocky is not established enough and his self carriage is not strong and steady and he is still using his head and neck to counter balance. He's been off for most of last year and the stage of his athletic development combined with my ability as a rider are truly not compatible with such a theory. Plus, he has a completely different hoof trim now and is probably still adjusting to that as well. Perhaps on an established horse, a fixed elbow can be used. Although I imagine it must be hard for such a rider to later be 'retrained' on using a following hand.

I've had to take a deep breath and a big step back and re-focus. I've collected my thoughts and let my pony be the judge. We are back to square one. I want Rocky to stretch his whole frame and become relaxed in his work again, work without tension and utilize his strength more efficiently. He was working too hard against himself by him feeling discomfort because he had to stay in an "outline" that required the use of the wrong muscles and made him sore. It has upset his normal balance and way of propulsion in just a few short weeks. No matter how one may justify this method, in the long run it leads to trapping the horse inside a certain perimeter and how the heck is he supposed to get out of it?

My instructor would say that keeping the elbows locked to your sides will help the horse to figure out for himself where he needs to be (the "side rein effect"). You want to follow, but only to a certain point, then the horse has to give to you. This is the part I came to disagree with - and so did Rocky and I started to wonder how a horse must feel with his head in one place during a gait when his head and neck are meant to move at all times.
You have to promise that you won't share these with anyone... This is the kind of stuff Rocky will do now, even when there's no tension on the rein. I don't think that what you see needs further explaining. Horses don't lie! You know what's really scary though? Is that my instructor finds all this acceptable and kept telling me not to worry about it, because he will do that until he figures out what his perimeter is.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience here.
Thanks for letting me speak so freely.

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Well I tried the arms to the side thing with Kristy after I took the clinic and Kristy definitely told me that it was not acceptable to her Must say I didn't spend lots of time analysing why she resented it just didn't go there. But, now with Sarah's comments I've been thinking about why it doesn't work.

My thoughts on why it doesn't work are your hips belong to your horse's hind legs and your hands belong to the horse's head and by attaching the your elbows to your hips you are attaching the hands to your hips which attaches your hands pretty firmly to the horse's hind legs or your hips pretty firmly to the front end.
Now you'd think that would be ok the horse is moving after all. But, what I see when I watch a horse is a wave of movement from the back to the front and by making my body one unit I can either follow one set of legs the front or the back. So if you follow the hind leg movement the horse keeps running into the bit because your hip is following the hind leg so let's say at the trot you're following the inside hind as it goes forward that' means you can't be following the outside foreleg as it goes forward because right at the moment your hip is traveling backwards so the horse on the outside runs into the bit because you can't follow on that side. So essentially what you are doing is compressing the outside of the body with your outside hand. Here's a link to a trot picture that I used when I was thinking about the dynamics of why it doesn't work http://lydielemmens .free.fr/ images/Skazir_ trot_suspension_ texte_grand. JPG

Longer reins only make the difference in that the horse travels a longer distance until they run into the bit but they will have to run into the bit eventually so all you are doing is giving them a longer parameter until you can't follow them, because if your elbow is attached to the hip then your hands are. The only way that you can get changes in the rein length is to move your hands because the wrist isn't a joint that bends the way and elbow does. After all the years of being beaten on to have a straight wrist I'm definitely not going there and it sounds like Sarah isn't either
Now let's say I decided that I wanted to attach my hands to the front end and follow that movement so the outside foreleg is going forward, my outside hip is going forward but that's not the hip that needs to be going forward at this particular stage of the movement. You can see that it would be doing some pretty funky things to my ability to follow the hind legs. So to keep the hind end moving you're going to have to apply lots of leg or spur. Sarah this shot is likely why the trot was the worst gait for Rocky. If you don't have a big moving horse it won't be as big a problem for you but Rocky is a pretty big moving guy If you ride this way for a long period of time your horse's movement will get smaller and thus easier to ride because they won't take those big strides anymore because either your hands or your hips are going to restrict them or you're going to have to decide to follow the front end and to use strong leg aids to get them to ignore what your hips are telling them. If you choose to follow the hind legs then your horse is going to learn to be behind the bit to avoid running in to it. Cathy
If your hand is following the shoulder (front legs) the horse won't run into the bit. However, if your hand is following the hind legs (elbow connected to the hip throughout the stride as taught with this method) then your hand will be moving backwards at some phases of each gait. Whereas if it had been following the front legs it would be moving forwards (check out the link to the picture I included in my last post), and thus the horse will hit the bit. Admittedly not all the time as the horse is in dynamic movement.
If you look at the picture of the horse you can see the one set of legs are close together and the other set are the furthest apart "they can get". So now imagine what your hips are doing if you were riding that horse. The right hip would be back and the left hip would be forward. Now if you were riding with your hands following the front legs your right hand would be forward and your left would be back in relation to the right hand. Now imagine what would happen if your hands slavishly follow your hips. Your right hand would be back and your left hand would be foreward. Directly opposite of what the front legs indicate the horse requires. Here's a link to some drawings of the stages of the various gaits you can check it out and see where the hind legs and front legs move together so you can see where the hand and hip connected works and where it doesn't http://www.wisc. edu/ansci_ repro/101equinel ab/gaits/ gaits.html
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Cathy, you spoke my mind. There is no way, I could have explained it like that, but that's exactly what's been happening and that is why it wasn't working for us.
I also wanted to add that I've been riding Rocky since he came to us at age 4 and he wasn't saddle broke prior to that. I never use a flash or a noseband and his discomfort was much more visible because of that, as he would tell me by having that mouth open quite a bit. (I have some really ugly photos but I won't share!) I know a lot of people who will not ride without a flash, I wonder what would happen if all of a sudden they all came off - I think we'd be seeing a lot of open mouths. Maybe horses that are more established and/or less sensitive (due to a more rigid training) can handle it better, I just know that Rocky has Zero tolerance for it, because no matter how hard I try to follow him with my hips, he is used to having that freedom of a following elbow and hand. He's always been really sensitive in that regard, not just with me, but with other riders as well.
Cathy thank you for explaining this. I understand much better what was happening and why Rocky lost some of his rhythm and forwardness in the process. This must have been very confusing to him to say the least.

I have to admit that riding somewhat deep with a shorter rein felt like I was unlocking my pony's back. The schwung I felt when this happened was INCREDIBLE.
But maybe that's all the devil in disguise.
I mean just because something FEELS right and FEELS good doesn't mean it's correct. I also don't agree when people say that some tension is all right in the development of the horse. That this tension will dissipate as the horse becomes stronger in mind and body.
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Sarah it often does feel "really good" because you've dumped the horse onto it's forehand and the hind end is "free wheeling" because it's not carrying weight back there. Therefore, the back does feel really loose.
There are lots of really easy ways to put a horse on the forehand this one is because you're blocking the flow from the back of the horse to the front of the horse and when you do that the horse can't really lift themselves so the hind legs just can't come under themselves the way they should so they can't carry in the same way that horse that can truly bring it's hind end under so since the horse has to carry 100% of your and his weight and he is rendered less able to carry that weight on the hind end well the front end has to pick up the slack. So yes it's a looseness in the back but it's not the same looseness in the back that you feel from a horse that is carrying from the hind end. That looseness is felt all through the body there isn't tenseness associated with it.
Horses have four legs to our two so they do move differently then us. Essentially we take a step and our body reacts to that step throughout the body. Horses have legs of legs that are doing different things at different times so their body is responding to four different stimulus at the same time that's why if your hips are locked together you interfere with the horse, if your hands are locked together you interfere with the horse, if you lock your right hand to your right hip and your left hand to your left hip you lock the horse. Your hips and your hands must all be able to function independently of each other. That's why Sandy used to make us do exercises where our right hand was doing something different then your left and at the same time your right leg was doing something different then your left. It was to make us be able to independently respond to the horse.
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Cathy, I think you hit the nail on the head. Everyone, I did something really brave and uploaded a photo that needs no words. Before you go look at it, I may add that Rocky 'felt' quite good at that moment. Aside from my position, I did try to keep my elbows lined up with the reins and I got the sensation that he was stepping under more in the back, but look at the mouth!
I don't know what else to say, and I can't really explain it the way some of you can, but I can't think of one reason why this is acceptable. It is a false release, a false schwung and a false sense of impulsion. As you all know, my level of expertise in this field is not as advanced as yours, which is one of the reasons why I really don't want to pursue it.
Anyway, go check it out:
http://sports. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/DressageQu est/photos/ browse/506c
I can't explain the photo, other than it felt really good, but it is quite obvious that Rocky was not a happy camper.
P.S. I think I'm going to take up trail riding...
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Aside from the discussion, I have looked at those pictures again and would you agree that Rocky has very LITTLE muscle on his backend right now? Just as a comparison, I've uploaded some old pics of when he was pretty fit (old camera, lousy quality) and I can really tell the difference.
http://sports. ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/DressageQu est/photos/ browse/506c? c=
This has been a very enlightening
I think I am going to go back to how I was taught in Germany. We were always taught as kids to stay out of the horse's mouth at all times, that true collection comes from the seat and and the seat alone and when that happens, you may as well ride without a bridle. The same concept applied whether you were a beginner rider or doing upper level stuff. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there was much more emphasis on the seat than anything else. I am not as good of a rider as I was back then, but I can tell you that when your seat was truly working, you could ride those horses on a buckle and they were still collected and in a nice frame. In fact, that is what we did a lot back then (as my teacher would say "throw those reins away!") and the horses were much happier, but it was so much darn work on the rider's part. I don't know if any of that make s any sense, but I've only met one person ever in! the U.S. I suppose, it is never too late to learn something new and I want to keep an open mind here...if it is a proven system that works for many people, I will accept that. It's just not something that I personally want to explore any further.


Funny that you say that. For some reason, people think it's OK to endorse certain techniques and it's like you said, they're trying to find some logic in the opening of the jaw, yet when you look at these horses at liberty, not EVER do they have their mouth open, not even in the most elaberate of movements. Below are some examples:
http://www.equestrianimages.smugmug.com/gallery/2184946/1/113607171/Large
http://equestrianimages.smugmug.com/gallery/1531522/1/73717649/Large
http://equestrianimages.smugmug.com/gallery/1876309/1/94653963/Large
That is what made me realize that something is really wrong with this concept.

I’ve collected my thoughts on this, taken some notes and I will also explain what feels so “good” about this.

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Sarah concerned about going against teachings and possibly hurting someone’s feelings who did follow this training method. Asks for reassurance. And the only reply can be.
“I think if you want to, you should feel free too. Eloquence can be tough. Be honest it is always best.
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I ride without a noseband and flash. I bet you if we’d remove all those straps from the horses, you’d see a lot of gapping mouths!!

Yes. I think part of the problem is that they didn't get to see it as clearly as you. Your pony gave you very clear signals as you went from following at least some to not following. You also ride completely without a cavesson. Good chance they didn't get gapping mouths but the signs would still be there.
It is all a process. But realize that you might, just might have started something really good.

Nadja

For some odd reason, everyone so far seems to miss the point. That no matter how flexible your elbows are you’re still going to end up forcing the horse into a frame... It is just so hard to explain.
Sarah

This is going to be a bit of a lengthy email, but I have come to a point in my journey where I think I realized a lot of things. I have done a lot of research lately, on all the different methods and trainers and the problem with most of them is their general ignorance about the horse’s nature, his inherent capabilities and the biomechanics of movement. I guess, knowing how a person and a horse move in balance is a science itself and the only logic that I find in it is my desire to stick to the criteria of a happy, balanced, unstressed horse that moves in total harmony with its rider. I remember way back when there used to be a time when cavalry horses in various parts of the world would all answer to exactly the same aids and the same seat. All of a sudden, there were different styles, methods and aids, but I feel that the conventional and correct aids for the horse are not being addressed, let alone understood. It seems that with some of these trainers there is more emphasis on developing a horse into a certain mould and fixing the horse’s outline than allowing the horse to find self-carriage. I used to think that rhythm and forwardness come before anything else. I can see why, because with some of these methods, it is not very difficult to break a horse away from its natural rhythm. The results will be almost instantaneous! I’ve seen it with Rocky. A child can do this. The fixed hand/elbow/following your hip thing really did not work for us, since it prevented me from following the horse’s neck movement and that can only be done when the reins are out some. Actually, a relaxed frame is the only thing that ever worked for both of us. This may have little or nothing to do with dressage, but for me it is no longer about a certain method or discipline, but it’s all about how the horse works. I have come to the realization that energy, rhythm, balance and collection are all generated in the quarters. The quality of the work of the quarters influences the quality of the work in the whole horse, whether on a short rein or long rein. In my experience during the past few rides, I’ve discovered that the influence of the rest of the horse on the quarters is literally non-existent, unless the horse is working correctly behind to start with by initiating the proper exercises. Without that, you can bend and twist, stretch and loosen, or do whatever with your hands and elbows, but the quality of the horse’s movement will never improve. I am sorry for sounding so cynical, but there seem to be a lot of trainers out there who force the horse into a certain position and call it collection and then they crank up the back and they call that collection too. The only way a horse can truly be collected is through balance and self-carriage. Forced collection causes the horse’s hindlegs to step under a little. But just a much as they step under, the forelegs step back to take their part of the bodyweight, because the horse has never been trained correctly to access the power of his hindquarters. We have now created rhythm problems. I told you, there’s not much to it.

If half of those trainers I’ve been reading about put more emphasis on a sound basis, they would understand that success can only lie in the fact that you establish self-carriage throughout all the movements. If you fix your hands and elbows, all you do is put the head of the horse in a certain position and you lift and block the back. People think that this is the feel they want, but for me it’s just another technique to make things happen and as far as Rocky is concerned... well, he’s much happier now, since he no longer feels he’s being kicked into a wall of hands and didn’t get robbed of his pride in the process!!

And now I truly do think

“Don't listen to anyone's criticism of your riding. Collect your thoughts; and let the horse be the judge of what you do. When you set your foot on the ground, if your horse can turn around and face you with a grateful, soft look in his eye, and his body becomes supple and relaxed, you know you've done it right.”

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